Kevin Fisher's raw and powerful narrative takes center stage as he joins us for a poignant conversation about loss, love, and the drive to make a difference in the mental health landscape. His journey from business to advocacy, precipitated by his son's battle with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, is a stirring reminder of the human stories behind the statistics. In shedding light on his son's struggles and the family's relentless pursuit of help amidst a crisis, Kevin's experience underscores the need for comprehensive support systems and the harsh reality of stigma that still shadows mental health.
Addressing the critical intersection of mental health and law enforcement, we dissect the need for empathy, training, and resources to properly handle mental health crises. The heartrending tales Kevin shares highlight the urgency for change, not only for those in crisis but also for the officers who are often on the front lines without adequate preparation. This episode pushes past the misconceptions that link mental health to violence, paving the way for a nuanced understanding and fostering a society that prioritizes compassion over fear.
As our conversation turns to the broader societal implications of mental health, Kevin emphasizes the importance of destigmatization and early intervention. The division and stress fracturing our communities only amplify the need for open conversations about mental health within families and society at large. Kevin's advocacy is a clarion call to all, inviting us to join in a united effort to confront and heal the mental health struggles that affect countless lives, transcending political divides. This episode isn't just a dialogue—it's a mobilization for action and understanding in the critical arena of mental health.
Engage the conversation on Substack at The Common Bridge!
Kevin Fisher's raw and powerful narrative takes center stage as he joins us for a poignant conversation about loss, love, and the drive to make a difference in the mental health landscape. His journey from business to advocacy, precipitated by his son's battle with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, is a stirring reminder of the human stories behind the statistics. In shedding light on his son's struggles and the family's relentless pursuit of help amidst a crisis, Kevin's experience underscores the need for comprehensive support systems and the harsh reality of stigma that still shadows mental health.
Addressing the critical intersection of mental health and law enforcement, we dissect the need for empathy, training, and resources to properly handle mental health crises. The heartrending tales Kevin shares highlight the urgency for change, not only for those in crisis but also for the officers who are often on the front lines without adequate preparation. This episode pushes past the misconceptions that link mental health to violence, paving the way for a nuanced understanding and fostering a society that prioritizes compassion over fear.
As our conversation turns to the broader societal implications of mental health, Kevin emphasizes the importance of destigmatization and early intervention. The division and stress fracturing our communities only amplify the need for open conversations about mental health within families and society at large. Kevin's advocacy is a clarion call to all, inviting us to join in a united effort to confront and heal the mental health struggles that affect countless lives, transcending political divides. This episode isn't just a dialogue—it's a mobilization for action and understanding in the critical arena of mental health.
Engage the conversation on Substack at The Common Bridge!
Welcome to this episode of season 5 of the Common Bridge, where policy and current events are discussed in a fiercely nonpartisan manner. The host, richard Helpe, is a philanthropist, entrepreneur and political analyst who has reached over four million listeners, viewers and readers around the world. With our surging growth in audience and subscriptions, the Common Bridge continues to expand its reach. The show is available on the Substack website and the Substack app Simply search for the Common Bridge. You can also find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. The Common Bridge draws guests and audiences from across the political spectrum, and we invite you to become a free or paid subscriber on your favorite medium.
Speaker 2:This episode of the Common Bridge is brought to you by Sensei, who offer an affordable cyber solution to small and medium-sized organizations. From creating an incident response plan to providing cyber awareness training and phishing simulations, Sensei delivers the tools to help your company prevent a cyber attack. Curious to see where your company stands on cybersecurity? Begin with a free cyber health evaluation that takes less than 30 minutes. With no obligation to buy. You will get a credit score, but for cybersecurity. Start your journey with Sensei today.
Speaker 3:Hello, welcome to the Common Bridge. I'm your host, richard Helpe. We've covered a lot of important topics on the Common Bridge, and none more pervasive as mental health, the treatment of mental illness. Today we continue to pursue that topic and we've got an expert with us today who's doing some wonderful things in the field. So I'd like to welcome the Common Bridge, mr Kevin Fisher. Kevin, welcome to the Common Bridge, thank you. Thank you for having me. Very, very good to see you. Our audience likes to know a little bit about our guests, so maybe a little bit on your side. But where'd you grow up, some of your early experiences and what's brought you to this point today?
Speaker 4:So, of course, I'm a native of Michigan and I grew up in Highland Park, michigan, which is a little city surrounded by Detroit, came to this work really, and I'm an advocate in an activism, not a psychiatrist, a social worker. I always like to get my disclaimers out. I came to this work with personal experience. I'm a retired businessman. I spent 20 years in transportation logistics and then I spent some time buying for Kmart, sears and Meyer.
Speaker 4:But in 2007, my oldest son, dominique, was diagnosed with serious mental illness. He was 20 years old, sophomore at John Carroll University and by all means just an all-American kid three-sport athlete, great social skills, good academic skills, never gave his mom and I much trouble at all, came home for Thanksgiving break and was just rambling about God working for him and taking over the world for the better, and we had never seen symptoms of mental illness in him before. So as mom and I quickly assumed that maybe he'd gone off to school and experimented with drugs, and we took him to the hospital to be drug tested and after a lengthy exam, the doctors explained to us that there were no drugs or alcohol in his system, but that they were going to put him on a 72-hour psychiatric hold, which was like hitting a brick wall at 100 miles an hour because, again, we had seen no symptoms of mental illness with Dominique. He was initially diagnosed with schizophrenia and later they added the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. We learned very quickly how little we knew about mental illness treatment, really what his prognosis was going to be. So for about two and a half years we floundered, trying to understand the behavioral health care system.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, that journey came to an end on June 27th of 2010, when we lost Dominique to suicide. So it was worse than you can imagine and, frankly, as a father, I felt a tremendous sense of not only grief but failure. I felt like I failed to protect my son, and so I went through this grieving process, but I did it in probably the most unhealthy manner possible because I internalized everything. Dominique's mom and I had divorced about a year prior. I was in a new relationship and I ultimately remarried, but two younger children were brought into that relationship, and so I was trying to be a strong dad, protective provider. Silences, strength, show them what I thought they needed. But what I was doing by internalizing my own grief and guilt was killing me inside, and it wasn't long after, probably six months after I lost Dominique that I started experiencing suicidal ideation myself. So I literally, frankly, planned to take my own life. On the year anniversary of Dominique's passing, I planned to go visit his grave site and I didn't plan to come home. And I am blessed with a wonderful wife.
Speaker 4:My wife always allowed me to grieve in my own way, and I always visited Dominique's grave site alone, unless I would make separate visits for her. But for me it was very private and personal. And the day that I planned to take my life, she decided that she was not going to allow me to spend that day alone. And so I noticed she wasn't getting dressed for work and when I asked her why, she said well, I'm going to spend the day with you. And I said, no, today's going to be a really bad day. And she said no, I know what today is and I can't allow you to spend it alone.
Speaker 4:So, without knowing that I was experiencing suicidal ideation, she really intervened and saved my life. So once I got past that, it was what's next. And what was next for me was, you know, I had gone to therapy, I had hired a therapist, I joined a national grief organization for parents who lost children. So I was doing things that I thought were good for my self-care, but I was just sinking and sinking and so my wife, my current wife Sonia, said well, maybe a therapy is not helping you. She said, maybe you can help yourself by helping others. So she Googles everything and she happened to come across NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental.
Speaker 3:Illness, correct, correct.
Speaker 4:So I said, sure, I'll try it. And when I went to my first family to family support group meeting, it just resonated. I was with people who understood what I'd gone through. I was with people who didn't make me feel like I failed my son, because there's a stigma associated with mental illness. There's a stigma for people who've lost loved ones to suicide. And so I just felt at home. And one thing led to another. I was a volunteer for NAMI. One thing led to another. In 2014. I assume responsibility as the state executive director, supposedly on an interim basis, and 10 years later, I'm still here and I love the work that I do.
Speaker 3:I offer my condolences for that horrible tragedy that you've experienced and I'm very impressed that you've energized toward helping other people through NAMI and is the website NAMIorg.
Speaker 4:No, our website, that's the national website. Okay, the Michigan website is NAMIorg, so I'm going to just add it to Michigan. So if you're in, Michigan, namiorg.
Speaker 3:If you're any place else, our audience is international NAMIorg. What does the organization do? What does NAMI do?
Speaker 4:So NAMI is the nation's largest grassroots mental health advocacy organization that is purely dedicated to improving the lives of anyone impacted by mental illness, not just people who live with the diagnosis but their family members, their caregivers and literally the community at large, because there's a ripple effect to when a person is diagnosed with mental illness and we as a society, not just in Michigan or the United States but literally around the world, we don't really understand mental illness because we're afraid of you know it's taboo to talk about it and we really need to change that. And NAMI is really dedicated to changing that, to making mental illness, that conversation, a household conversation, because that's how we overcome it.
Speaker 3:Well, I know that when someone has a cancer diagnosis or a cardiac diagnosis, or they've been a survivor's stroke, people say, oh, we don't hide that and we know how to talk with people that are in treatment. But now that you've said that, it occurs to me we don't know how to say look, my family member has a diagnosed mental illness. What do we do differently? So that is a huge challenge, and is our mental health treatment ecosystem responsive to that?
Speaker 4:The ecosystem is responsive. But we've got so much further to go because we have such a shortage of resources. And again, that's internationally, that's not a US thing, that's not a Michigan thing, that is internationally. There's a tremendous shortage of behavioral health care professionals. But even before we get there, the whole reason I wear this everybody versus stigma. Stigma is the leading barrier to the early diagnosis and treatment that leads to better outcomes. If we don't destigmatize mental illness, doesn't matter how many hospitals we build, doesn't matter how many psychiatric beds, it doesn't matter how many professionals, doesn't matter how much money we throw at it. If people are afraid or ashamed to pursue mental health treatment, they simply won't. And we can throw all the money at it we want to and it just won't make a difference.
Speaker 3:Do you see any difference among segments of the population? You know teens, or you know suburban versus urban versus rural versus big states, little states, any differences in there?
Speaker 4:You know I love young people. I love all people, but I absolutely love young people, not in a creepy way. You know young people. So we talk about stigma. We adults are more the perpetrators of stigma than young people.
Speaker 4:I spend a lot of time in junior and senior high schools and on college campuses and young people are very open to having this conversation. I will give it our presentation and immediately after Q&A I will have students, boys and girls, and I'm starting to see more young. As many young men as girls will come to me and they'll tell me about their experiences with mental illness, substance use disorder, being survivors of suicide attempt. They'll tell me the medications they're on. They'll tell me that they're in therapy, but what scares me the most, they tell me, is that their parents are not comfortable having the conversation and, in many cases, not receptive to them receiving treatment. I've had young people tell me yes, I'm diagnosed, but my parents won't allow me to get treatment because they don't want the neighbors, the coworkers, the people we sit next to at church to know. And so we're denying these young people the help that they need and, coming out of this pandemic COVID has had a tremendous impact on our behavioral health.
Speaker 3:I know that there's been much written but very little detail about the mental health impacts of the COVID shutdowns, and we don't talk also about the social indicators of health status, you know, housing stability, food security and the like. How are all these factors tying together?
Speaker 4:So I'm going to answer the last part first, because it's really important that we address that. If people don't have the social supports that they need, if I'm homeless, if I'm cold, if I'm hungry, if I'm worried about taking care of my children, if I don't have a place to sleep at night, you can't expect me to come to therapy, you can't expect me to keep that appointment. We have to make sure people have all of those social supports that they need to take care of themselves and in many cases when we talk about suicidal ideation, those are the triggers. As I mentioned before, when I lost Dominique, I did what I thought society expected me to do. I grieved internally. I put on a brave front for my wife and my children. That is a huge mistake, very similar to if an individual or a loved one has mental illness. We need to make sure that their basic needs are met before we can expect them to engage in an effective treatment plan. They're just not able to do it.
Speaker 4:I mentioned before COVID had a tremendous impact on our behavioral health. I believe if I were able to sit down with Dr Fauci and I believe I've actually heard him say this in interviews before using the term social distancing was a mistake and we have to be really careful about the language that we use. That social isolation had a huge impact on our mental health. 55% of children, 45% of adults that we've interviewed in the last three years said that the COVID pandemic had a tremendous impact on their well-being. They're engaging more in illicit alcohol and drug use, more depression, more anxiety. All of those things have been triggered by the COVID pandemic, because COVID was traumatic and trauma can trigger mental illness, and so there are huge ramifications.
Speaker 4:And then we also have to understand that we always say mental illness doesn't discriminate, doesn't care if you're black, white, rich, poor, republican, democrat, urban, suburban rule. It doesn't discriminate. Neither does stigma. But stigma does vary by community and culture. The stigma of mental illness in the African-American community is much different than it is in the Caucasian community. It's different than it is in the Muslim community. It's different than it is in the Latino community. It even varies difference between men and women, people who are religious and not. There are huge variations and we can't take for granted the term meeting people where they are. We have to be intentional about that. My conversation with students is very different than my conversation with adults. It's different than my conversation with seniors. It's different when I'm engaging with law enforcement military veterans. I have to tailor my conversation to meet their needs and not just be so general.
Speaker 3:You mentioned law enforcement. My understanding is you're doing some work with officers about de-escalation and that officer arrives at the scene and doesn't know if they're going to be a counselor, a warrior or something else. How do you prepare that law enforcement person for the interaction and what kinds of things are you doing?
Speaker 4:You know. So I happen to have the privilege of serving as the president of CIT International, which is Crisis Intervention Team Training International. Cit International was actually started by NAMI in the late 80s 1988, as a result of a situation in Memphis, tennessee, where an unarmed man who was experiencing a behavioral health crisis was shot and killed by law enforcement and the local NAMI affiliate went to the police chief and the mayor and said look, you can't execute people because they're mentally ill. You have to learn and understand how to relate to us. Because they don't get that training in the academy. They just don't and they don't have the lived experience. So what we do at CIT International is a 40-hour training so it's five days, eight hours a day where not only we have classroom work, where we help them identify people who are experiencing behavioral health crisis versus, I guess, what you might call the common criminal who's being defiant. We teach them about medication. We teach them about what resources are available in the community. So we're not taking them to jail and we're not harming them, but they're getting help. And, most importantly, we teach them how to verbally de-escalate. We teach them that time is on your side. This is not like a drive-through.
Speaker 4:Very often law enforcement officers are trying to quickly resolve one situation so they can go to another. When a person's in a mental health crisis, you can't put them on the clock because to be able to verbally de-escalate you have to slow everything down and you have to talk to me. At my level and I learned this very much from my son, dominic I learned that my expectation of him as a 23-year-old man, that he would get, he would know, to get up in the morning, take a shower, brush your teeth, make your bed all of that changed for him. Well, very similar to law enforcement. Very often law enforcement may go, as they call it, hands-on, because they may interact with a person like my son and they may. You know, officers give commands and they say, well, stop, talk to me, you know, put your hands up, that kind of thing. Well, a person who's in a mental health crisis is not able to respond to those commands. So where the officer, the untrained officer, may think you're resisting or being defiant, no, I'm schizophrenic, I'm not able. I've got voices in my head that are competing with the commands.
Speaker 4:So we train officers to do that. But, equally as important, we train officers on officer wellness and self-care. Because, we have to remember, law enforcement officers are people first and they're coming home where they may have children that are experiencing maybe behavior health issues of their own, or they're struggling in school. They may have marital problems, they may have money problems, they may have problems on the job, and we expect them to come out on the street and treat us as competently as they can. Well, they've got all that other stuff going on too and there's a stigma amongst law enforcement officers. Many officers are afraid to disclose that either they're challenged with the behavioral health care issue or family member because they don't want to be taken on a service. They don't want to be fought less by their partners, they want to be trusted. So we have to break down that stigma as well.
Speaker 3:And really being enlightened here about that central stigma and so folks understanding what they're dealing with and how to do it. Are there particular policies or institutions that are responding well or, as in your work with NAMI, are you finding things still kind of back in that old stigmatized way or are more people becoming enlightened?
Speaker 4:More people are becoming enlightened, but it's not happening fast enough, quite frankly. First of all, we need to normalize the conversation about mental health in our homes. Then, when we think about professions whether it's law enforcement, first responders, dentists, any profession we need to have that conversation. You know most people don't realize in the United States. Corporate America loses almost $200 billion in lost earnings annually $200 billion annually directly attributed to mental illness, and so corporations need to understand the impact that is having on their bottom line. If for no other reason. I was having a conversation just a couple days ago where a young lady who works for a large corporation says you know my company employee assistance program, eap program. They talked to us about money management. They had resources for us if we have a substance use problem, marital problem, she said, but they never talk about mental health, and mental health is hitting us for $200 billion a year.
Speaker 3:When you think about some of the societal factors. We've had a couple men on the show, adam Coleman and Zell Kennedy, and one of the things that they talk about is the presence of fathers in the home. And I hear loud and clear from you you were a good dad, strong man, and you still dealt with a son with a tragic mental illness. Is there linkage between the fathers in the home and mental stability or better behavior, particularly with young men?
Speaker 4:Yes, yes and yes. There is a serious linkage between the absence of a father in home and mental illness Because, again, remember, we're talking, at the very least, about trauma and if you're in an unstable home environment, there is something called ASIS adverse childhood experiences and adverse childhood experiences is a quiz that basically highlights indicators of trauma that can lead to mental illness and it has a lifelong effect if it's not dealt with. And an absent father is one of those traumas. Again, homelessness, if there's violence in the home, if there's sexual or emotional abuse, those are traumas.
Speaker 4:We think about PTSD in terms of active military and veterans, but we all experience PTSD and that is ASIS. And what's interesting about adverse childhood experiences is that studies show us if we don't get treatment, if we don't address that trauma from childhood, the lifelong effect is not just mental illness, it's not a negative impact on relationships, but it rears its head in heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer. So it has a tremendous physical effect on us. Our parents, my grandmother, used to always say either you deal with your issues or your issues will deal with you. That trauma, going unaddressed and untreated, will have, or can have, very serious physical consequences.
Speaker 3:When you're driving to work and you're musing about the state of the world. I know you're a deep thinker. What kind of society would we have if there was adequate mental health services and treatment for mental illness and the destigmatization what would our society and our world look like One.
Speaker 4:I think we have a much safer society and I want to be careful. So I'm going to explain that comment and I think we'd have a happier society. You know, unfortunately, the United States has experienced more mass shuntings in recent years than we'd like to talk about. Unfortunately, whenever there's a mass shooting, it is very common to connect that with mental illness. People will say well, to carry out such a horrific crime, you must have been mentally ill. The fact is and this is not my opinion the fact is, people with a diagnosed mental illness are responsible for less than 4% of all violence in this country. Less than 4%. Most people with mental illness and again I'll use my experience with my son most just want to be left alone. They want to be, they need to be heard, but they want to be left alone. Now, I would not be a good advocate if I didn't admit this as well. I'm very protective of people with mental illness, but untreated mental illness can be dangerous, and that's where it's really important that we have adequate resources available and that we encourage people to get the health that they need before they become a danger to themselves or others. After it's too late. We worldwide, we are too reactive to mental illness and again, I attribute that mostly to stigma. We hope that people who live with mental illness it'll just go away, it won't be so bad today, he'll be better tomorrow. We can't mental illness as a medical diagnosis so, like any other medical diagnosis, the longer you ignore it, probably the worse it's going to get. The earlier we intervene, the better the outcomes. And so we need to encourage people to get help when they need it, and we need to make sure that help is available when they're ready. Because, again, drawing on my experience with Dominique, I used to tell him I would do this for you. I prayed to do this for you. I prayed to God, let's let us switch positions. But it doesn't work that way. But he had to get help when he was ready. I couldn't force him to get help. So when a person's ready, we need to have adequate resources available to them. But beyond that, people who live with serious mental illness sometimes commit petty crimes.
Speaker 4:If we go back to the late 90s, when there was an explosion across the country, people liked to pick on Michigan and say you know, the late 90s is when Governor Engler closed the state hospitals. That's true, but that didn't just and I'm not defending the governor at all but that happened across the country. And what happened was we closed a lot of those mental health facilities. We sent people home or to communities that were ill prepared to manage them. So we ended up with an explosion of homelessness.
Speaker 4:Because either and again using my experience either Dominique becomes frustrated with me because he doesn't understand why dad, who loves him, is yelling at him Make your bed, take your shower, do this, take your medication. So he decides either I'd rather live on the street than be yelled at every day, or me, as a parent or caregiver, may come to the conclusion well, you're just not listening to me, so get out of my house. But either way, we had that explosion of homelessness. Now people out in the street and they're cold and they're hungry. What are they going to do If they need to? They're going to steal food, they're going to steal clothes, they're going to do the things to keep them warm.
Speaker 3:They're going to self-treat with whatever narcotic alcohol they can get on the street. You know we had Dr Victor Horn from the University of Michigan health system, who isa psychiatrist in emergency medicine, and he spoke about the closing of the mental hospitals without having the community-based services. We've had Judge Mac on twice and he talked about the jails being the largest mental health facilities and then chapter and verse about how inadequate those are. Kevin, you're very steeped in this from a deeply personal place and from a professional place and you guys can hear your business background coming in. You can solve this problem. If you had a call today from the president of the United States and you were invited to go to Washington and maybe sit with a couple cabinet secretaries, what would you tell the president?
Speaker 4:My first ask would be let's do everything in our power to destigmatize mental illness. That has to be where we start. That absolutely, and if that's marketing campaigns, whatever that needs to be. We have to destigmatize mental illness. Then we need to make sure we have the resources available. I give the current president credit because he has invested more in the behavioral health care system. I think, then, has ever been invested in the same. I can say the same thing here in the state of Michigan.
Speaker 4:The Whitmer administration has invested more money to behavioral health care than we've ever seen, but it's not enough. It's not enough. We need to educate more behavioral health care professionals. We are eight to 10 years behind developing what I call a bench of behavioral health care professionals that can meet the need. The need is, unfortunately, only getting worse.
Speaker 4:You know 2022, we experienced the highest rate of suicide or loss by suicide in our country's history 49,499 people died by suicide last year and unfortunately, the experts are predicting that it'll be even higher for 23. We have to change that, and the way we change that is first by normalizing the conversation, and it has to be simultaneous. We have to invest in the resources again, so when people are ready for help. There are good places for them to go and receive help, but we're making some progress. I am cautiously optimistic. We have something, and I don't know if Judge Milton Mac or Dr Hong talked about it Senator Stabenow, in partnership with Senator and I knew I was going to forget his name since I got ready to say it out of Missouri, created something called Certified Community Behavioral Health Centers, which is game changing In my mind. The Holly on the Missouri, no it was.
Speaker 4:He just retired it'll come to me in a minute and I'm sure he'll be able to edit this but they created we call them CCBHCs, but a Certified Community Behavioral Health Clinics, and it is game changing from the perspective that high quality behavioral health care is now available to anyone who goes to a certified community behavioral health center, regardless of the severity of their diagnosis, regardless of their insurance status and regardless of their ability to pay. So where many people won't seek behavioral health care treatment because of stigma, lack of knowledge of what resources are available and they're concerned about I won't be able to afford it, this legislation takes it off the table. There are over 500 CCBHCs across the country and growing and we need more of them and it's high quality behavioral health care. It's not back door, back alley. These are the best, some of the best providers in our communities, but it's the best kept secret in the country. Certified Community Behavioral Health Care Centers have been around for seven years now, and even mental health professionals are unaware of it.
Speaker 3:Well, it seems to me very cost effective, because the cost of one police run or we there was a situation in, I think, Wixom last night that you know barricaded gunmen, right, and so lots of law enforcement resources out there for hours on end Any time we can prevent a public event like that won't prevent a personal tragedy is, I think, cost effective and helping people cope, Because times have been stressful since COVID. The country is very divided. There's more stress there. People are wondering can they trust our institutions? Can they trust the people that we elect? Can they rely on the value of a dollar? I mean, there's fundamental things that I would imagine really stress vulnerable people to the point they have an event. Kevin, this has been a really thoughtful conversation today and I really appreciate that you're here. What didn't we talk about today that you'd like the listeners and the readers and the viewers of the Common Bridge to hear?
Speaker 4:So two things. First, make mental health a dinner table, breakfast table conversation in your family. This is something that we need to talk about again. If we normalize the conversation, we can destigmatize mental illness. The second is if you or a loved one lives with mental illness, please don't wait until a person is a danger that to themselves or others before you get them help. We want to prevent crisis and the way we prevent crisis is to intervene early, and I know that's not easy sometimes. Again, speaking from personal experience, there were times that I would have to take my son to a crisis center proactively because I feared that it may become a physical confrontation, or maybe I would need to call the police, and I don't want the police involved. Anytime you can resolve a situation proactively, the better and, to your point, it saves money. It costs us 10 times more to house an individual in jail than it does to provide them effective behavioral healthcare from the community mental health system. So it saves money, it improves the quality of life and it saves lives.
Speaker 3:It's very important things to think about. Any closing thoughts for our audience that you'd like to wrap up with Self-care is not selfish.
Speaker 4:As we enter the holiday season, a lot of people like myself struggle. Dominique's birthday is New Year's Day, so the holidays are always a really tough time for me. Protect your mental health and don't be apologetic about that. If you're not comfortable going to the company office party, Christmas party, family gatherings, if you know those are not good spaces for you and a good time for you to be there, don't go. And if you are someone who knows me, for example, and you know that this is a tough season for me, acknowledge that and allow me the space and grace to say I understand you don't wanna come to the company party. Maybe I can take you for coffee.
Speaker 4:A lot of people are uncomfortable because they don't know how to talk to me about my son. As a matter of fact, there's some people who won't mention his name and they do it not for malicious reasons. They do it because they think they're being protective. But I miss him and I enjoy hearing his name and I actually appreciate it. Even somebody says Kevin, I know it's a tough time for you, I don't know what to do. How can I help? It means the world to us.
Speaker 3:We've been talking today with Kevin Fisher, the executive director of the National Alliance for Mental Illness, deeply personal conversation about his dearly departed son, dominique, who was stigmatized and victimized by mental illness. We can do better as a human race. We can do better as a country. I hope that everybody that is listening, reading or viewing this will understand this is not a Republican issue, a Democrat issue, a right or a left. We need to come together on the common bridge and solve these problems. Our human heart needs that to happen, our families need that to happen and with our guest, kevin Fisher, this is your host, rich, helping signing off on the common bridge.
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